#3 Conversation with Charlotte Fielder MBE - From Law Enforcement to Love in Action

After 33 years in law enforcement, Charlotte Fielder MBE followed a burning desire to open the final chapter of her career in service of something deeper.

In this episode, Charlotte joins Jayne to trace her remarkable journey - from Lead on Volunteering at a Thames Hospice, to 8 years Head of the Volunteer and Fostering team at Battersea Dogs and Cats Home - and what she discovered about human nature, purpose and the power of core values along the way.

Charlotte shares why you can train skills but who people are at their core is what truly motivates them to give their time for causes they love, and why volunteering in animal welfare carries a grief and emotional weight that is often under estimated.

And of course, Jayne asks the question at the heart of every episode - are you really fine?

Charlottes answer may surprise you - as she wisely reflects, sometimes we are the very last ones to know when we’re not okay - and the stories we tell ourselves can be the most convincing of all.

Charlotte speaks in a personal capacity and views expressed are her own.

 linkedin.com/in/charlotte-fielder-mbe-she-her-59190514

EF training exists because nobody should have to pour from an empty cup. Founded by Jayne Ellis who learnt the hard way so you don't have too.

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Connect with us at info@eftraining.co.uk

Visit us at http://eftraining.co.uk for more information about Jayne Ellis and learn about our Compassion Fatigue and Emotional Resilience Training for Organisations and Individuals.

Please note: This podcast is intended for education and supportive purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health support. If you are struggling, please reach out to a qualified professional or contact your GP. 

The views and options expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views, values or position of EF training Ltd. Guest content is shared in the spirit of open conversation, learning and intended as a safe space for honest dialogue. 

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to today's episode of I'm Fine. My lovely guest today is Charlotte Fielder Charlotte and I met. Painting a float in the village that we both lived and I can't even remember. Can you Charlotte, what organization it was for? Because I think we did several. I have no idea what the theme of the float was. I just remember it was a float and I think we might have all sat on it at some point. Probably, yeah. We did one for, we love Old Windsor, didn't we? For Facebook and we did it, but I've done, I did the Brownies and the Guides and the Scouts and the Cubs and because, you know, Charlotte and I are the type of people who if you ask us to do something, we just tend to do it. Yes. She's nodding. I'm very obliging. I'm a natural volunteer. Yes, me too. I'm having to resist the temptation to join the parish council where we live now because they need someone, I'm not doing that again. Anyway, from there, we then worked together at a hospice. And I was working as one of the nursing team and Charlotte was working there as head of volunteering. And my first question to you then is, what led you to work there? Oh, wow. That's a question, Jane, because I've worked for 33 years in law enforcement roles and I didn't want to spend the last 10 years of my career within law enforcement. And I felt that a burning desire to go and work in the voluntary sector. And I had a look at, several charities and what they were doing. And I was very drawn to working at our local hospice because my husband had been a volunteer bereavement counselor there for about 11 years. And he used to tell me about the work of the hospice and I felt it was something that I could support and that I could use. Some of my skills to make a difference, and I've been managing staff for many years and I felt that those people skills were very transferable and that turned out to be true. Yeah. And then you moved into a different sector? I did because after a few years you decided to take the plunge and work with the animal welfare team. Still with the volunteers. Yeah. How was that different? So I left the hospice and I went to work for Battersea dogs and cats home as head of volunteering and fostering. And I was there for eight years until I retired and it was the best job of my life. And I'm currently a trustee for the Association of Dogs and Cats Homes. I volunteer for the R-S-P-C-A. I volunteer for Blue Cross and I volunteer for Battersea. I'm still very well connected to the animal. Welfare sector and I can still see the impact of the work on the people who make it happen. So I can see the differences are still there for me, working for a short time within the palliative care sector. And I think the differences are around how you recruit your volunteers because volunteers who are volunteering for hospices many of them were there because it was payback. The hospice had cared for a loved one and helped their loved one and the family during their darkest hours. And wanted to give back. And volunteers within animal welfare I'm just using that very widely are often there because of a really pure love of animals and recognizing that animals like children don't have a voice and they don't have a choice. And so the motivation is then to make a difference by their cause driven. So it's cause and making a difference. Yes. So there are parallels and I still see it. Can I just say at this point, Jane, and it's really important that is that I have referenced where I've worked and where I volunteer, but everything I say to you today, and it is on my personal thoughts and views that have been informed. Where I have worked and where I volunteered and, but they're not the views of the organization. So I'm not a spokesperson for any of them, but I'm informed by what I've done. It's nice because you can talk about the sector more broadly because you've got ways of being in parts of other sectors as well when you were looking for a volunteer then, so you've said that they make a connection because potentially somebody had a loved one that passed away. When you are looking at a volunteer, who is going to work in the animal welfare sector you said that it's their core values. So is it a love of animals? Is it a desire to want to make a difference to the animal's lives? What do they tell you when you ask them why they want to volunteer? Animal welfare charities. Like many other charities will publish a volunteer role profile, right? And they will say within that, generally what the role entails, and they will also talk about what skills and experiences they want. And most charities now will actually list what their values are so that people can see if they. Match up with what those values are, which is a really good thing. So when I was accountable, because I had a volunteer services manager and a fostering manager below me who did all of that day-to-day recruitment and their coordinators were running the show. I didn't have to. Interfere with their recruitment processes because we'd agreed what the role profiles were, what we were looking for. And other people discharged that as part of their job description. But I think what you are looking for in, in volunteers is commitment is people who are going to come in. Yeah. It's people who care because. You can give people training, but what you can't do is give people core values because those are integral to who people are. Yeah. You recruit for who they are, and then you give them whatever training is required. Yeah. So obviously you know what I do. Yes. Because we came in and did some of the training do you think that when you started the role working with the volunteers and especially now moving through to the, the animal welfare sector, do you think that people really do appreciate the emotional impact of working in that sector? The impact that it can have on them over time, some of the things that they have to deal with and some of the things they have to see? It's a really good question because, people can sometimes have quite a romantic view of what rescue is. Yeah. And they have a, have an idea. And often the idea and the notion of it doesn't actually match the reality. For example, across the sector at the moment know a high percentage of animals coming into rescue can be strays. So that there are dogs or cats that have been dumped in parks or they're not strays in terms of they've been on the streets for years that people have just gone and let them loose somewhere. Or a, a box of kittens left outside a rescue center. And that's quite difficult to actually, you have to work with. Other humans poor decisions around not Yes. Bringing the animal into the shelter themselves isn't letting the animal free. And also that a lot of the dogs, for example, are a lot bigger. We're quite a long way post COVID, but the people who got the COVID puppy have now got a 6-year-old dog that might have, a lot of behavioral problems because they were never going to be natural dog owners. They just wanted to join in and get a dog like everyone else. And then the world has changed. Yeah. And more people are required to work in the office, and so those dogs aren't needed anymore. So the sector is really challenging and those challenges will affect people. And especially if you see animals coming in that have been neglected or abused who are shut down because you are then seeing an animal who sometimes they're beyond our help. The problems are so great. Yeah. And the problem is there. For staff and for volunteers. And what I don't want to do is take away from anybody's experience of it because obviously if you've got a vet nurse who's working with one particular animal every single day, and then it becomes to a point where the animal has so many health. Problems and the prognosis is not great, and there's gonna have to be a difficult euthanasia decision that is really gonna impact upon the permanent members of staff. But equally, you might have a volunteer who has been working within a kennel and they've been coming in every week and doing a lot of enrichment within the kennel, and really bonded and connected with that dog or with a cat within a pen. And then they come in. And that dog or cat is no longer there and it's not being rehomed. Yeah. So I, I don't think there is a hierarchy of upset or how it impacts upon people because Yeah, we bring our whole selves to work. Yeah. And it's often sometimes it's the old saying about the straw that breaks the camel's back, but there's a buildup of things. It's not just. The work or the job because you could probably cope with certain things that are happening, but then there's difficulty in your family or a breakdown in a relationship or your mother's ill and it's those things that are running alongside it that I think then you have something particularly bad happen at work and that's when I think people are sometimes then in danger. Yeah. Yeah. And then obviously, that's what we talk about when we run the training. Do you think that people then should have some kind of formal training when they start in this kind of work that enables them to be able to understand what compassion fatigue is, what vicarious trauma is, and how the work can impact them? I do believe. That it was a really good idea as part of induction. Yeah. To talk about the impact of the work upon people's emotional wellbeing because, health and safety training. We talk about trips and slips and, yeah. Fire hazards and leaving fire doors shut and how to use an extinguisher. So I think if we actually talk about people's mental health and emotional wellbeing and we talk about the risk factors at a very early stage, then I think in some way you are beginning that mitigation process very early on because you are able to say there are times when things might happen and you are not able to cope and people. And then actually, I was told about this, so I know why I am feeling this way because I've had similar happen to me before. Or I've been fostering a lone kitten. And I know those lone kittens are going to have a 30% mortality rate. And I've had that explained to me. And I've lost kittens before, but this one is a bit different because I've really bonded with this kitten. So any type of preventive work that we can do across animal welfare sector is a really good thing. Yeah. But also it's, we have to remember that the animal welfare sector is under huge pressures with lots of people having to do huge amounts of work. Sometimes not enough staff, not enough money. With so many difficulties. So we are not living and operating and working in a perfect world. And, those pressures and challenges are across the sector and for animal welfare centers and charities, they are huge. Yes. We've worked in the sector and you can see it and you can hear it when you talk to the staff. Let's switch to you now. Obviously the podcast is called, I'm Fine. So my question to you is, do you ever say, I'm fine when you're not? And if so, why? Why? Why do we do it? Why do we say we're fine when we're not? What's your take on that? I just think I'm fine. It's just a shorthand and it's, to me, I'm fine. It's actually a very neutral statement. Yeah. So it is sometimes, it's I'm neither good, no bad. I'm just, I'm fine. I'm operating in that area. I'm not delirious happy and I'm not sitting there crying in my beer. So I, I don't think the words I am fine are particularly problematic. But I think the way that I'm fine can be delivered. Yeah. Is the key of it is the semantic. So if you say to somebody, how are you? And they say, I'm fine. I'm fine. Then that is a time when you know clearly you're not fine. Yeah. And you've either got to come up with some really good other enabling questions that show that you are there for them and it is Okay. Safe to talk and because if your people are very vulnerable, the shutters are coming down, so I am fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. Is is a red flag if everything, the body language around them is clear that they're not So it's a phrase Yeah. That we all will use. And if we know that we are using it to shut people down. Then that is a time really to be aware that we all, how can I put this? I think it's about we should be aware. Yeah. About the stories we tell about ourselves. Interesting. So if we tell the story. I am a super resilient person and I can always look at any problem that comes my way and I'm able to examine that problem and work out what is impacting me and label it and then come out of that and say, oh, maybe it's time that I did a little bit more self care. I'll go and walk the dog But you know what? Life is so messy. Yeah. When sometimes we are really struggling and things aren't working well, we are actually the last to know Yeah. That we're not always seeing it. Other people can see that we are becoming very distant, that we're becoming snappy, that we are distracted, that we are intolerant of others and that the person who is in there doesn't always see it. But, you asked about me, i've been involved in this work for a very long time now, not just in the hospice, but I was doing a support of people who were were feeling bullied back in the home office back in 2009 and before that. Maybe I have developed an understanding of it. Certainly I have, honed some skills. For me at the moment, I'm not working in any direct animal facing roles. Yeah. My Blue Cross role is probably the role where I get most impacted emotionally because I'm talking to people who have lost a much loved pet. And I know that Blue Cross had some really good rules. So if if I was to lose a family member or. Pet, I would come off that helpline for yeah, six weeks. Six months, however long it takes because you are not any good for the people you are trying to help if you are dealing with your own losses. Yeah. I think self-awareness, oh, isn't it a wonderful thing. You to be, to say to people to build self-awareness and it's, yeah. Great. When you're talking about everybody else, it's, but it's that's always is the trait and you're the last that Yeah. Yeah. I feel I was in the workplace for 44 years and retirement for me. Was great because it enabled me to explore and be part of the things I really love doing without the nine to five, 40 plus hours a week. But I still have my commitment to emotional wellbeing across the animal welfare sector is huge. And I just, not only that I'm very. Lucky that I'm super supported by my husband Gary, and, he is so committed. He actually is the wellbeing lead. For the Association of Dogs and Cats home and delivers wellbeing sessions every Wednesday for any staff or volunteers, which is mindfulness, meditation and ways of looking after ourselves. Yeah this is a topic that we actually spend a lot of time discussing. Yeah. Because both of us know that you have to look after the people. Yeah. If you don't look after the people, they're not gonna be able to do that for the animals. Yeah. If I gave you unlimited amount of money, then bit of blue sky thinking. Yeah. When you were designing an animal welfare organization and you were able to design the the welfare for the people within that. So that the culture was supportive what do you think you could implement that would help to mitigate some of the stress that they're feeling? Okay. That's another great question, Jane, but I guess what I would be looking at is for the working first at an organizational level. Yeah. The organization to accept and understand that people who are drawn to our work are already highly empathic because it's in their nature. Yeah, that they want to go and do that. And if they didn't have that, they might be drawn to a sales role somewhere or some other work in another sector. So people who are naturally caring and are carers and have high levels of empathy, they are already, and again, this is my, I haven't got stats for this is my view based on what I, how I work. Yeah. Yeah. They're already predisposed. To being affected by some of what happens within the sector. Yes. That's because of who they are, that, that heart. So if the sector and the organizations acknowledge this and then they in turn embrace the duty of care that they have to look after people and put measures in place, proactive planning to reduce workplace stress. Yeah. And actually look. Towards responses that should be in place, planned responses rather than hasty reactions. Yeah. So that's what the organization has to do. And to be really fair, so many organizations now find me a charity that doesn't have some sort of mental health first aid response or not buying in packages of training and emotional care. And they do it really well, and the commitment is absolutely there. Yeah. So I'm not going to suggest in any way that any organizations are at fault. What is the problem is the scale of what we are dealing with at the moment. Yes, this. It's unprecedented. Number of animals that are coming into animal welfare. So I think if I was, you've given me that huge pot of money and I was designing it, it would just be putting all of those measures in place and measures in place and then checking do they work and more measures in place, and what else can we do to try and mitigate against the problems that we will come up against. And I guess. We, what we have to do is,'cause we do some really good stuff across the sector, brilliant things. And you can have a superb day is, and this is always something that's come to me and it's an idea that floats in my head and then it floats out. But it is that we have many good experiences, lovely things. When you rehome. That cute dog to that wonderful family and then they send in the photos. All your foster carers have had a really brilliant experience or your volunteers have had a great day, but every time people have a bad experience, it takes away from some of the good stuff. Yeah. That's gone on it. It's not like saying I've got my pot of good experiences and my pot of bad experiences. We don't do that as people. So if you have. Particularly bad experience, your human nature, you just don't remember the good stuff because the bad stuff becomes really big. And I think it's not good enough to say, yeah, but all this good stuff happens. Actually. We need to really understand the impact of the bad things. And not try and say that the sweetener is, there's lots of good stuff. Yeah. You hear it all the time. They say, oh yeah, but the good outweighs the bad. Yeah. That's not true.'cause we are human beings and that's not how we work is it? Because, no and I think it, that's, we're designed to focus on the Yeah. That can be a bit simplistic to say that, isn't it? So It is. Yeah. No, it is. But I can remember speaking at a conference actually and, the AV guy that was in charge of my microphone. After I stepped down, he said, I'd never really thought about it like that. He said, I'd always assumed that because, the volunteers and the staff at these animal welfare centers get to play with kittens and see all these wonderful animals that somehow that would make anything bad, not as bad for them. And he said, it wasn't until I thought about it that I realized that, they have to deal with a lot and they really do. They really do have to deal with a lot and, if you were going to give some advice to somebody who wanted to work in the animal welfare sector, someone who's listening, who's thinking, maybe I'll go and be a volunteer for an animal welfare charity. What advice would you give them? What do you think they need to know? I would say that you need to participate wholeheartedly. In any training you're given and mean, not to say I'm never gonna be that I'm very strong. That will never happen to me. Is that actually be humble. Yeah. And take on board because the key messages about self care are there for a reason. Yeah. And also I would say to people that the organization can't solve it all. You need to manage your own risk. Yeah. So if you have had. A bad experience and a little kitten has died and you're really feeling it. Is that when the foster coordinator phones says, are you ready to take another kitten or another cat? And you are not then actually to say, no, I can't do this at the moment. Yeah. And actually own your decisions, and once you get invested in self-care, saying no becomes a lot easier because you realize you are saying no. Because you want to help the next set of kittens. Yeah, so it's this hole. You can't pull from an empty jug. Yeah, my jug is empty. I need to spend time refilling my jug. And I'll get back to you when I'm feeling that I can do that. Yeah. And I guess it's the power of no, to be able to look after yourself because nobody has a crystal ball, if you've got the best poker face in the world and you are saying yeah you're saying I'm fine. Yeah, I'm fine. And then, but really behind that you are using I'm fine as a screen. Yeah, the organization is not responsible for everything. Personal responsibility. It's a huge thing. Now, I'm not saying that runs all the way through because if you get to the point where you've got so much burnout no, you are sitting there crying all day. You would never turn around to somebody and say you didn't show much personal responsibility. I'm not saying that at all, because then that person really needs our help because all of the red flags along the way, they've not seen them. And that is, there's no blame attached. There's nobody is at fault. When we fall because of all of these things that have happened to us. And it is a normal thing. And it happens and there is no blame. Yeah. And we need to make that really clear that it's not a sign of human weakness. Okay. But to try and, yeah. Stop it. Let's think about the self care. Yeah. Which brings me neatly on back onto you. If you remember in the training, one of the things we talked about was responsible selfishness. Oh yeah. We called it. Yeah. So what is a responsibly selfish thing that Charlotte does? Two, two things really. One is I love walking my dog. So I'm now living very near the beach and walking the dog along the coastal path. There is just nothing better because I'm watching how she's responding to all the smells in the air and other dogs, and it's an absolute joy. I also think that for me, distraction is a great tool because, they talk about what you think about grows. And sometimes if I don't want to dwell on something or just mither on it I find listening to autobiographies and biographies. Especially if people have had some real challenges in their life or they've done some amazing things. They've overcome obstacles or yeah, but it's, for me, it's the people who are so honest about when they. Turn to drink or they weren't very nice to their loved ones or the thing, it's the gritty human nature stuff. So I think, yeah, great distractions for me is that, to see that how we're all flawed. Every single one of us, we carry these flaws and that we are not we are. Perfect self. So I do yeah, I do that feels almost like a guilty secret, but it's not. We've been very curious about other people's lives and if they've gone to the trouble of writing an autobiography and laid it all bare, why wouldn't I read it? No, why wouldn't you? That's brilliant. Thank you, Charlotte. It's been fascinating talking to you as always. Thank you very much for being on the podcast and carry on looking after yourself and Gary. By the Beach. Beach. And and thank you again. Thank you for asking me. It's been good to explore it. And just remember, Jane. I'm fine. All right. Take care. You take care too. Look after yourself. Bye-bye. I'll Thank you, bye.